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December 13, 2011, 2:15 PM
What Iraqis Think of the American Withdrawal: Baghdad
By STEPHEN FARRELL AND THE BAGHDAD BUREAU
BAGHDAD — As American forces start to pull out of Iraq, we asked Iraqis around the country three questions: Will Iraq be better or worse off after American troops leave? What did the Americans achieve in Iraq? And what have they personally lost or gained since the 2003 invasion? Some answered only one or two questions. Although the respondents varied from area to area and across social and religions divides, some clear patterns emerge.
In Sunni areas of the north and west — from Baghdad to Mosul and out across Anbar – there is abiding fear among Saddam Hussein’s once-ruling minority of the ancient regional foe, Iran, and how vulnerable a post-American Iraq may be to Tehran’s military, political and economic ambitions.
By contrast, in the areas controlled by Iraq’s majority Shiite population, more interviewees talked of the Iraqi security forces — now, of course, controlled by a Shiite-led government – being ready to take over.
Members of minorities like the Kurds, Christians and Turkmen are often the most pessimistic, since they are the most vulnerable. One can in many cases treat with skepticism the often disingenuous and self-serving canard –
from people who most likely never visited the gassed Kurdish town of Halabja or the drained Shiite marshes of the south — about Saddam’s Iraq being a blind meritocracy free of sectarian or religious divisions.
But it is significant that in both Sunni and Shiite areas, there are some who say that life was better under Mr. Hussein because of the security his omnipresent police and intelligence forces imposed on Iraq, even from those who shudder in the next breath when recalling the dictatorial nature of his regime.
At War begins its informal, nationwide glimpse of some of the prevailing Iraqi attitudes about the war and the future of their country. We will visit five areas of Baghdad: the north, south, east, west and center of the city.
Baghdad is not just the capital of Iraq, it is the hub at which all the country’s major highways converge, and from which all power emanated under Saddam Hussein’s highly centralized Baath rule. It is dominated by Sunni and Shiite Arabs, with smaller Kurdish, Christian and other minorities. Since the sectarian slaughter of the post-invasion era, some neighborhoods have returned to something like normal. Others are still surrounded by high blast walls, to keep Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias out.
The New York Times
ADHAMIYA, Baghdad
(A Sunni Arab stronghold in north Baghdad. It was a bastion of support for Saddam Hussein, and still has blast walls to protect it from the Shiite majority neighborhoods around it, on the Shiite majority eastern side of the Tigris. An early source of anti-American hostility, its vulnerable population increasingly came to be more fearful of Iran and its Shiite acolytes in Iraq.)
Samir Nasrat, 28, Aluminum Cabinet Maker
In Adhamiya, Mr. Nasrat said the war brought worries never felt under Saddam.
Khalil Ibrahim, 46, Government Employee
1. I am so concerned about the U.S. withdrawal. I’m one of those who want them to remain. Many things will gradually deteriorate in Iraq, especially security, which will be affected by Iran’s influence once the Americans have gone.
2. America has already taken what it was looking for, but I don’t think they achieved all of their goals before it withdrew.
3. The benefits that we gained were the elimination of the militias and the bringing of democracy to Iraq.
Hassan Essa, 49, Businessman
1. I want the Americans to remain until the Iranian influence has been expelled somehow. I think there will be negative and worse security changes in the country.
2. I think that America accomplished its mission by achieving its goals concerning Iraq’s oil, destroying Iraq’s infrastructure in order not to be an obstacle to Israel’s plans in the future, and taking revenge on Saddam. America is less hostile than Iran.I think America will remain in Iraq secretly, and one reason is to move against Iran in the future. This is our hope.
Nour Kasim, 30, Housewife
1. It is not the right time for America to leave Iraq with such internal conflicts and the security situation so unstable and unsafe. We need more time to stabilize security and to be ready for any external confrontation. I don’t think Iraq is ready to do this alone.
2. I don’t know exactly the American goals, but I believe that they achieved them, otherwise they wouldn’t decide to leave. I don’t have any problem with America, Saddam or any ruling party because I don’t get myself involved in politics. I hope Iraq will be liberated, but we have to be able to protect our country first.
SADR CITY, Baghdad
(A Shiite district once called Thawra (Revolution) and then Saddam City it was renamed Sadr City after the 2003 invasion in honor of the revered Shiite clerical family – descendants of the Prophet Muhammad – of which Moktada al-Sadr is a scion. It has become the east Baghdad stronghold of the Sadrist movement.
Sadeq Rathi, 43, Motorcycle Taxi Driver
Mr. Rathi sees no bright future for his country.
Ali Hussein Ali, 45, Government Employee
1. It’s difficult for me to see what is going to happen in the future; I am just a simple man. But I know that many of my friends think that things are going to get better, and many think that they are going to get worse. The people who think it’s going to be better think that the Americans are going to stay, and they want them to stay, because they think that a situation that they know is better than a situation that they don’t know. Children are now able to go to school, people are going to work, some construction has begun. We have had long wars with Iran and then Kuwait, and we need at least the same amount of time, maybe 35, 40 years, to fix our situation. And the key to that is security.
The people who believe it’s going to be worse think that if the Americans leave there will be no work and no construction because no one will invest in Iraq without the Americans here. They are also afraid that sectarian and religious issues between Sunnis and Shiites will return, not only between the people but between the politicians in Parliament. Only God knows what will happen.
2. No. No.
3. My brother was killed. I am always full of grief and sadness. That is why I am wearing black until today. I gained nothing.
Muhammad Jumad, 42, Kebab Seller
1. It depends on how ready the Iraqi security forces are. I think they are ready, and I think it is better for the Americans to withdraw.
2. I didn’t see any achievements. They created more unemployment. As you see, I have a stand selling kebabs. Before the war I had a proper shop in Fadel, but we were forced out in 2006 because of all the sectarian events with the Sunnis there. We had to move to Sadr City and I have this stand, on a sidewalk.
3. I gained nothing. I am trying to think of something, but we didn’t gain anything.
A trio of Iraqi Shiites, gathered on a street corner, each answered one of the questions:
Jassem Ahmed, 25, Unemployed
1. It is a pleasant surprise for us that the Americans are leaving. God willing, things will be better because the Americans are the only excuse that the terrorist groups, Al Qaeda and the others, have to continue. They are behind all the sectarian conflicts.
Ali Jassem, 32, Unemployed
2. They didn’t achieve anything, or let’s say they achieved bombing, killing and explosions. They delivered false promises. They didn’t bring anything good for us, for the people; they only brought politicians who are out for themselves.”
Qassem Ali, 27, Unemployed,
3. The one thing they did achieve was getting rid of Saddam Hussein. We might not have been able to get rid of him and his family for four generations. However, while it is true that Saddam was unjust to the Iraqi people, there was security, there was a chance of a job, there were services. Right now things are so bad because of the Americans.
CENTRAL BAGHDAD, off Tahrir Square
Safi Abed, Businessman
Mr. Abed believes the U.S. isn’t leaving Iraq with a real democracy.
KARRADA, Baghdad
(An affluent, middle-class area of central Baghdad which experienced few sectarian tensions but numerous suicide bombings, as insurgent groups tried to drive a wedge between its Sunni, Shiite and Christian populations.)
Najwan Basam Slaywa, 39, Christian
1. Iraq will be in a real dilemma. Iran and Al Qaeda in Iraq will kill all the Christians. I am pessimistic about the American troop withdrawal.
2. The U.S. achieved bad things for us, now the Christians are easy target. I need them to stay to protect Iraq until the U.S. gets rid of Iran and the terrorists.
3. I lost one of my relatives in a roadside bomb in Karrada in 2007, now I am looking to leave Iraq. This is the big loss for all honest Iraqis – losing Iraq.
Rani Basil, 34, Christian, Taxi Driver
1. Iraq will be great place if the U.S. withdraws, so I do not think that the US will leave Iraq because they are about to attack Iran. You can see recently all countries that have a connection with Iran, such as Syria, are witnessing sanctions and are about to change their government.
2. The U.S. government and Army achieved their mission exactly as they wanted and planned: they made all the Iraqis hate each other, and they created sectarianism in our once united nation. Now the way is clear for them to stay to attack Iran or Syria.
3. I lost my dignity. In 2003 when they occupied Iraq they raided my house. When I asked the American soldier to stop searching in my wife’s clothing closet, he stepped on my head with his dirty foot.
Mal Allah Hillow, 48, Mandaean Jeweler
1. The Iraqi government asked the U.S. troops to leave, but this was not a wise decision, it is the government playing dice and gambling with all the Iraqis and our great history. Now I can see the difference between now and before 2003. Before 2003, we were living as real Iraqis. I believe that U.S. troops will remain in Iraq forever, because we have treasures, and they need to use Iraq as a strategic base to control the area, and to prevent Iran to dominate the region.
2. They improved their economy, created hate among Iraqis, and they achieved and completed what the British started in Iraq and the region.
3. Myself and all the Mandaeans lost our identity. We were killed by terrorists. Now I live as a person who is afraid of saying that I am Mandaean
ABU GHRAIB
The Sunni district of west Baghdad home to the notorious Abu Ghraib prison and was one of the centers of the Sunni insurgency after the 2003 invasion. It is close to the airport and Iraq’s most important highways – west and south of Baghdad – along which American convoys are now traveling out of the country.
Sgt. Maj. Ahmed Salman, Iraqi Army
Sgt. Maj. Ahmed Salman just wants the army to hold its ground after the Americans withdraw.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
What Iraqis Think of the American Withdrawal: Baghdad
By STEPHEN FARRELL AND THE BAGHDAD BUREAU
BAGHDAD — As American forces start to pull out of Iraq, we asked Iraqis around the country three questions: Will Iraq be better or worse off after American troops leave? What did the Americans achieve in Iraq? And what have they personally lost or gained since the 2003 invasion? Some answered only one or two questions. Although the respondents varied from area to area and across social and religions divides, some clear patterns emerge.
In Sunni areas of the north and west — from Baghdad to Mosul and out across Anbar – there is abiding fear among Saddam Hussein’s once-ruling minority of the ancient regional foe, Iran, and how vulnerable a post-American Iraq may be to Tehran’s military, political and economic ambitions.
By contrast, in the areas controlled by Iraq’s majority Shiite population, more interviewees talked of the Iraqi security forces — now, of course, controlled by a Shiite-led government – being ready to take over.
Members of minorities like the Kurds, Christians and Turkmen are often the most pessimistic, since they are the most vulnerable. One can in many cases treat with skepticism the often disingenuous and self-serving canard –
from people who most likely never visited the gassed Kurdish town of Halabja or the drained Shiite marshes of the south — about Saddam’s Iraq being a blind meritocracy free of sectarian or religious divisions.
But it is significant that in both Sunni and Shiite areas, there are some who say that life was better under Mr. Hussein because of the security his omnipresent police and intelligence forces imposed on Iraq, even from those who shudder in the next breath when recalling the dictatorial nature of his regime.
At War begins its informal, nationwide glimpse of some of the prevailing Iraqi attitudes about the war and the future of their country. We will visit five areas of Baghdad: the north, south, east, west and center of the city.
Baghdad is not just the capital of Iraq, it is the hub at which all the country’s major highways converge, and from which all power emanated under Saddam Hussein’s highly centralized Baath rule. It is dominated by Sunni and Shiite Arabs, with smaller Kurdish, Christian and other minorities. Since the sectarian slaughter of the post-invasion era, some neighborhoods have returned to something like normal. Others are still surrounded by high blast walls, to keep Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias out.
The New York Times
ADHAMIYA, Baghdad
(A Sunni Arab stronghold in north Baghdad. It was a bastion of support for Saddam Hussein, and still has blast walls to protect it from the Shiite majority neighborhoods around it, on the Shiite majority eastern side of the Tigris. An early source of anti-American hostility, its vulnerable population increasingly came to be more fearful of Iran and its Shiite acolytes in Iraq.)
Samir Nasrat, 28, Aluminum Cabinet Maker
In Adhamiya, Mr. Nasrat said the war brought worries never felt under Saddam.
Khalil Ibrahim, 46, Government Employee
1. I am so concerned about the U.S. withdrawal. I’m one of those who want them to remain. Many things will gradually deteriorate in Iraq, especially security, which will be affected by Iran’s influence once the Americans have gone.
2. America has already taken what it was looking for, but I don’t think they achieved all of their goals before it withdrew.
3. The benefits that we gained were the elimination of the militias and the bringing of democracy to Iraq.
Hassan Essa, 49, Businessman
1. I want the Americans to remain until the Iranian influence has been expelled somehow. I think there will be negative and worse security changes in the country.
2. I think that America accomplished its mission by achieving its goals concerning Iraq’s oil, destroying Iraq’s infrastructure in order not to be an obstacle to Israel’s plans in the future, and taking revenge on Saddam. America is less hostile than Iran.I think America will remain in Iraq secretly, and one reason is to move against Iran in the future. This is our hope.
Nour Kasim, 30, Housewife
1. It is not the right time for America to leave Iraq with such internal conflicts and the security situation so unstable and unsafe. We need more time to stabilize security and to be ready for any external confrontation. I don’t think Iraq is ready to do this alone.
2. I don’t know exactly the American goals, but I believe that they achieved them, otherwise they wouldn’t decide to leave. I don’t have any problem with America, Saddam or any ruling party because I don’t get myself involved in politics. I hope Iraq will be liberated, but we have to be able to protect our country first.
SADR CITY, Baghdad
(A Shiite district once called Thawra (Revolution) and then Saddam City it was renamed Sadr City after the 2003 invasion in honor of the revered Shiite clerical family – descendants of the Prophet Muhammad – of which Moktada al-Sadr is a scion. It has become the east Baghdad stronghold of the Sadrist movement.
Sadeq Rathi, 43, Motorcycle Taxi Driver
Mr. Rathi sees no bright future for his country.
Ali Hussein Ali, 45, Government Employee
1. It’s difficult for me to see what is going to happen in the future; I am just a simple man. But I know that many of my friends think that things are going to get better, and many think that they are going to get worse. The people who think it’s going to be better think that the Americans are going to stay, and they want them to stay, because they think that a situation that they know is better than a situation that they don’t know. Children are now able to go to school, people are going to work, some construction has begun. We have had long wars with Iran and then Kuwait, and we need at least the same amount of time, maybe 35, 40 years, to fix our situation. And the key to that is security.
The people who believe it’s going to be worse think that if the Americans leave there will be no work and no construction because no one will invest in Iraq without the Americans here. They are also afraid that sectarian and religious issues between Sunnis and Shiites will return, not only between the people but between the politicians in Parliament. Only God knows what will happen.
2. No. No.
3. My brother was killed. I am always full of grief and sadness. That is why I am wearing black until today. I gained nothing.
Muhammad Jumad, 42, Kebab Seller
1. It depends on how ready the Iraqi security forces are. I think they are ready, and I think it is better for the Americans to withdraw.
2. I didn’t see any achievements. They created more unemployment. As you see, I have a stand selling kebabs. Before the war I had a proper shop in Fadel, but we were forced out in 2006 because of all the sectarian events with the Sunnis there. We had to move to Sadr City and I have this stand, on a sidewalk.
3. I gained nothing. I am trying to think of something, but we didn’t gain anything.
A trio of Iraqi Shiites, gathered on a street corner, each answered one of the questions:
Jassem Ahmed, 25, Unemployed
1. It is a pleasant surprise for us that the Americans are leaving. God willing, things will be better because the Americans are the only excuse that the terrorist groups, Al Qaeda and the others, have to continue. They are behind all the sectarian conflicts.
Ali Jassem, 32, Unemployed
2. They didn’t achieve anything, or let’s say they achieved bombing, killing and explosions. They delivered false promises. They didn’t bring anything good for us, for the people; they only brought politicians who are out for themselves.”
Qassem Ali, 27, Unemployed,
3. The one thing they did achieve was getting rid of Saddam Hussein. We might not have been able to get rid of him and his family for four generations. However, while it is true that Saddam was unjust to the Iraqi people, there was security, there was a chance of a job, there were services. Right now things are so bad because of the Americans.
CENTRAL BAGHDAD, off Tahrir Square
Safi Abed, Businessman
Mr. Abed believes the U.S. isn’t leaving Iraq with a real democracy.
KARRADA, Baghdad
(An affluent, middle-class area of central Baghdad which experienced few sectarian tensions but numerous suicide bombings, as insurgent groups tried to drive a wedge between its Sunni, Shiite and Christian populations.)
Najwan Basam Slaywa, 39, Christian
1. Iraq will be in a real dilemma. Iran and Al Qaeda in Iraq will kill all the Christians. I am pessimistic about the American troop withdrawal.
2. The U.S. achieved bad things for us, now the Christians are easy target. I need them to stay to protect Iraq until the U.S. gets rid of Iran and the terrorists.
3. I lost one of my relatives in a roadside bomb in Karrada in 2007, now I am looking to leave Iraq. This is the big loss for all honest Iraqis – losing Iraq.
Rani Basil, 34, Christian, Taxi Driver
1. Iraq will be great place if the U.S. withdraws, so I do not think that the US will leave Iraq because they are about to attack Iran. You can see recently all countries that have a connection with Iran, such as Syria, are witnessing sanctions and are about to change their government.
2. The U.S. government and Army achieved their mission exactly as they wanted and planned: they made all the Iraqis hate each other, and they created sectarianism in our once united nation. Now the way is clear for them to stay to attack Iran or Syria.
3. I lost my dignity. In 2003 when they occupied Iraq they raided my house. When I asked the American soldier to stop searching in my wife’s clothing closet, he stepped on my head with his dirty foot.
Mal Allah Hillow, 48, Mandaean Jeweler
1. The Iraqi government asked the U.S. troops to leave, but this was not a wise decision, it is the government playing dice and gambling with all the Iraqis and our great history. Now I can see the difference between now and before 2003. Before 2003, we were living as real Iraqis. I believe that U.S. troops will remain in Iraq forever, because we have treasures, and they need to use Iraq as a strategic base to control the area, and to prevent Iran to dominate the region.
2. They improved their economy, created hate among Iraqis, and they achieved and completed what the British started in Iraq and the region.
3. Myself and all the Mandaeans lost our identity. We were killed by terrorists. Now I live as a person who is afraid of saying that I am Mandaean
ABU GHRAIB
The Sunni district of west Baghdad home to the notorious Abu Ghraib prison and was one of the centers of the Sunni insurgency after the 2003 invasion. It is close to the airport and Iraq’s most important highways – west and south of Baghdad – along which American convoys are now traveling out of the country.
Sgt. Maj. Ahmed Salman, Iraqi Army
Sgt. Maj. Ahmed Salman just wants the army to hold its ground after the Americans withdraw.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
