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Iraq’s Deputy Oil Minister Addresses Dispute Between Erbil and Baghdad
20/02/2012 00:42:00
In an interview with Rudaw, Mutasam Akram, Iraq’s deputy minister of oil since 2003, discusses the disputes over oil and gas between Erbil and Baghdad. Akram, 57 and a native of Erbil, says Hussein Shahristiani, Iraqi deputy prime minister and former minister of oil, is not against Kurdish interests and if Kurdish leaders meet with him they would reach a positive outcome.
Rudaw: When the Iraqi government was formed in 2010, the Kurds agreed to participate on the condition that the country’s oil and gas law was approved by the parliament within one year. But two years on, that law has not been passed yet. Why?
Mutasam Akram: Regarding the Kurdish preconditions, we have met with the Kurdistan Region president (Massoud Barzani) twice. The files on oil and gas, the one passed in 2007 and a separate one drafted by parliament itself, have both been referred to Iraqi Parliament. I have read both files in detail and the major dispute is whether oil and gas should be run by the central government or by the federal committee in charge of oil and gas. But that committee cannot be formed before the oil and gas law has been passed. So, the dispute between Erbil and Baghdad is about the powers of that committee.
“In my opinion, this issue is beyond the ministers’ powers and has to be debated at the level of political leaders.”
Rudaw: How can that dispute be solved?
Mutasam Akram: I don’t think it can be solved in parliament. It has to be settled by the political parties then sent to parliament for approval.
Rudaw: In order to draft the oil and gas law, Kurdistan Region’s minister of natural resources and the Iraqi minister of oil were supposed to meet face to face, but the Iraqi minister of oil was not willing to meet. Why?
Mutasam Akram: I have heard the same talk outside the ministry. But Kurdistan’s Ministry of Natural Resources sent a letter to Iraq’s Ministry of Oil in the middle of December 2011, sharing their views on the oil and gas law, which was mainly about the division of powers. The Kurdistan Region does not want to be under Baghdad’s supervision with its oil and gas sector and Iraq’s Ministry of Oil has not responded to that yet.
Rudaw: It means the problem is Baghdad. They don’t want to solve this dispute?
Mutasam Akram: The issue is political and replying to the letter of the minister of natural resources is outside the powers of the Iraqi minister of oil. It is in the hands of the government and the political groups have to discuss it. In my opinion, this issue is beyond the ministers’ powers and has to be debated at the level of political leaders.
Rudaw: It is said that the main cause of dispute between Baghdad and Erbil is Hussein Shahristani, Iraq’s deputy prime minister of the affairs of oil and gas. What do you say to that?
Mutasam Akram: I worked with Shahristani for five and a half years when he was the minister of oil. It is not true at all that he is against the Kurds. I believe he has never been against the Kurds and he is a modest person. I am sure if the Kurdish leaders had healthy discussions with him, they would have reached a better outcome. And I still believe there is hope for meetings with Shahristani and satisfactory results.
“Erbil and Baghdad should not wage this war of words in the media over oil and gas,”
Rudaw: Why Shahristani in particular?
Mutasam Akram: The truth of the matter is that Shahristani has a major role in drafting Iraq’s oil and gas law and he is deputy prime minister for the affairs of energy. I believe Erbil and Baghdad should not wage this war of words in the media over oil and gas until the law has been passed. Despite the current war in the media, there are no real technical issues and Kurdistan Region’s oil is exported normally. But this hostile tone would have a negative outcome.
Rudaw: Signing some contracts between the Kurdistan Region and ExxonMobil, an oil giant, has angered Baghdad and the capital has asked the company to cancel its deals. Where does this issue stand at the moment?
Mutasam Akram: Inside Iraq’s Ministry of Oil, no actual step has been taken against ExxonMobil and what we see is only in the media. ExxonMobil is the biggest oil company in the world and, if they wanted to work in some part of the world, they would think it over a hundred times before making a decision. When they sign a contract, they know well what the results will be. If ExxonMobil had known it would lose by signing a contract with the Kurdistan Region, it would not have done it. The same goes for the French Total that is also one of the biggest oil companies now in Kurdistan. Both companies enjoy heavy economic and political weight in the world and they wouldn’t have come to Kurdistan had they known they would lose.
Rudaw: Why does Baghdad not want ExxonMobil to work in Kurdistan?
Mutasam Akram: The agreement was that companies that have contracts with and work in the Kurdistan Region should not also work in Iraq. Back then, when a delegation from the Ministry of Natural Resources came to Baghdad and met with Abdulkarim Liebi, the minister of oil, the situation was suitable for the Kurdish delegation to tell Baghdad that companies involved in Kurdistan should also be allowed to work in the rest of Iraq. I even said that to the minister and his accompanying team. I also reminded them for the second time during the meeting in Kurdish, but they still refused to raise it with Iraq’s minister of oil.
“Inside Iraq’s Ministry of Oil, no actual step has been taken against ExxonMobil and what we see is only in the media.”
When delegates of Kurdistan’s Ministry of Natural Resources come to Baghdad, they do not inform me that they are coming and have a meeting with the minister. I was notified by the minister himself that a Kurdish delegation was coming.
Rudaw: According to the agreement between Baghdad and Erbil, how many barrels of oil is the Kurdistan Region supposed to export daily?
Mutasam Akram: In 2011, the Kurdistan Region was supposed to export 120,000 to 150,000 barrels a day, but they only exported 94,000 barrels. In 2012, they are expected to export 170,000 barrels every day, but it is still being debated whether Kurdistan will abide by that agreement or not. Kurdish officials say they don’t have to abide by it and Iraqi officials say they have to. The 2012 annual budget will show that.
Rudaw: There were talks about the Kurdistan Region selling crude oil to Iran illegally. Does Baghdad have any evidence of that?
Mutasam Akram: Unfortunately, because of rivalry and party affiliations, the Kurds come to Baghdad and share all the information they have with Shahristani and the officials of Iraq’s Ministry of Oil. Maybe those people are outside the ministry and don’t know them. When a statement by Kurdistan’s minister of natural resources appears on a Kurdish website, they immediately translate it into Arabic and give it to Shahristani.
One example here. In 2010, Ashti Hawrami, the minister of natural resources, said to a Kurdish website “the Kurdistan Region does not need Baghdad’s oil,” and this statement was handed to Shahristani at once. In turn, he said that so long as they do not need Baghdad’s oil products, 50 percent of their share should be reduced. It was the month of Ramadan and Shahristani’s decision created a crisis in Kurdistan. President Jalal Talabani contacted me by telephone and I went and talked to Shahristani. It took me two or three hours of talking and recitation of verses from the Koran to persuade him to change his mind.
Regarding smuggling oil to Iran, I know nothing. When I raised the issue with Shahristani, he said he had hard evidence and I told him that it was not true.
Rudaw: How much oil reserve does Iraq have?
Mutasam Akram: Iraq has 143 billion barrels of untapped oil. I don’t know about Kurdistan, but what I see in the media suggests that Kurdistan has 45 billion barrels.
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20/02/2012 00:42:00
In an interview with Rudaw, Mutasam Akram, Iraq’s deputy minister of oil since 2003, discusses the disputes over oil and gas between Erbil and Baghdad. Akram, 57 and a native of Erbil, says Hussein Shahristiani, Iraqi deputy prime minister and former minister of oil, is not against Kurdish interests and if Kurdish leaders meet with him they would reach a positive outcome.
Rudaw: When the Iraqi government was formed in 2010, the Kurds agreed to participate on the condition that the country’s oil and gas law was approved by the parliament within one year. But two years on, that law has not been passed yet. Why?
Mutasam Akram: Regarding the Kurdish preconditions, we have met with the Kurdistan Region president (Massoud Barzani) twice. The files on oil and gas, the one passed in 2007 and a separate one drafted by parliament itself, have both been referred to Iraqi Parliament. I have read both files in detail and the major dispute is whether oil and gas should be run by the central government or by the federal committee in charge of oil and gas. But that committee cannot be formed before the oil and gas law has been passed. So, the dispute between Erbil and Baghdad is about the powers of that committee.
“In my opinion, this issue is beyond the ministers’ powers and has to be debated at the level of political leaders.”
Rudaw: How can that dispute be solved?
Mutasam Akram: I don’t think it can be solved in parliament. It has to be settled by the political parties then sent to parliament for approval.
Rudaw: In order to draft the oil and gas law, Kurdistan Region’s minister of natural resources and the Iraqi minister of oil were supposed to meet face to face, but the Iraqi minister of oil was not willing to meet. Why?
Mutasam Akram: I have heard the same talk outside the ministry. But Kurdistan’s Ministry of Natural Resources sent a letter to Iraq’s Ministry of Oil in the middle of December 2011, sharing their views on the oil and gas law, which was mainly about the division of powers. The Kurdistan Region does not want to be under Baghdad’s supervision with its oil and gas sector and Iraq’s Ministry of Oil has not responded to that yet.
Rudaw: It means the problem is Baghdad. They don’t want to solve this dispute?
Mutasam Akram: The issue is political and replying to the letter of the minister of natural resources is outside the powers of the Iraqi minister of oil. It is in the hands of the government and the political groups have to discuss it. In my opinion, this issue is beyond the ministers’ powers and has to be debated at the level of political leaders.
Rudaw: It is said that the main cause of dispute between Baghdad and Erbil is Hussein Shahristani, Iraq’s deputy prime minister of the affairs of oil and gas. What do you say to that?
Mutasam Akram: I worked with Shahristani for five and a half years when he was the minister of oil. It is not true at all that he is against the Kurds. I believe he has never been against the Kurds and he is a modest person. I am sure if the Kurdish leaders had healthy discussions with him, they would have reached a better outcome. And I still believe there is hope for meetings with Shahristani and satisfactory results.
“Erbil and Baghdad should not wage this war of words in the media over oil and gas,”
Rudaw: Why Shahristani in particular?
Mutasam Akram: The truth of the matter is that Shahristani has a major role in drafting Iraq’s oil and gas law and he is deputy prime minister for the affairs of energy. I believe Erbil and Baghdad should not wage this war of words in the media over oil and gas until the law has been passed. Despite the current war in the media, there are no real technical issues and Kurdistan Region’s oil is exported normally. But this hostile tone would have a negative outcome.
Rudaw: Signing some contracts between the Kurdistan Region and ExxonMobil, an oil giant, has angered Baghdad and the capital has asked the company to cancel its deals. Where does this issue stand at the moment?
Mutasam Akram: Inside Iraq’s Ministry of Oil, no actual step has been taken against ExxonMobil and what we see is only in the media. ExxonMobil is the biggest oil company in the world and, if they wanted to work in some part of the world, they would think it over a hundred times before making a decision. When they sign a contract, they know well what the results will be. If ExxonMobil had known it would lose by signing a contract with the Kurdistan Region, it would not have done it. The same goes for the French Total that is also one of the biggest oil companies now in Kurdistan. Both companies enjoy heavy economic and political weight in the world and they wouldn’t have come to Kurdistan had they known they would lose.
Rudaw: Why does Baghdad not want ExxonMobil to work in Kurdistan?
Mutasam Akram: The agreement was that companies that have contracts with and work in the Kurdistan Region should not also work in Iraq. Back then, when a delegation from the Ministry of Natural Resources came to Baghdad and met with Abdulkarim Liebi, the minister of oil, the situation was suitable for the Kurdish delegation to tell Baghdad that companies involved in Kurdistan should also be allowed to work in the rest of Iraq. I even said that to the minister and his accompanying team. I also reminded them for the second time during the meeting in Kurdish, but they still refused to raise it with Iraq’s minister of oil.
“Inside Iraq’s Ministry of Oil, no actual step has been taken against ExxonMobil and what we see is only in the media.”
When delegates of Kurdistan’s Ministry of Natural Resources come to Baghdad, they do not inform me that they are coming and have a meeting with the minister. I was notified by the minister himself that a Kurdish delegation was coming.
Rudaw: According to the agreement between Baghdad and Erbil, how many barrels of oil is the Kurdistan Region supposed to export daily?
Mutasam Akram: In 2011, the Kurdistan Region was supposed to export 120,000 to 150,000 barrels a day, but they only exported 94,000 barrels. In 2012, they are expected to export 170,000 barrels every day, but it is still being debated whether Kurdistan will abide by that agreement or not. Kurdish officials say they don’t have to abide by it and Iraqi officials say they have to. The 2012 annual budget will show that.
Rudaw: There were talks about the Kurdistan Region selling crude oil to Iran illegally. Does Baghdad have any evidence of that?
Mutasam Akram: Unfortunately, because of rivalry and party affiliations, the Kurds come to Baghdad and share all the information they have with Shahristani and the officials of Iraq’s Ministry of Oil. Maybe those people are outside the ministry and don’t know them. When a statement by Kurdistan’s minister of natural resources appears on a Kurdish website, they immediately translate it into Arabic and give it to Shahristani.
One example here. In 2010, Ashti Hawrami, the minister of natural resources, said to a Kurdish website “the Kurdistan Region does not need Baghdad’s oil,” and this statement was handed to Shahristani at once. In turn, he said that so long as they do not need Baghdad’s oil products, 50 percent of their share should be reduced. It was the month of Ramadan and Shahristani’s decision created a crisis in Kurdistan. President Jalal Talabani contacted me by telephone and I went and talked to Shahristani. It took me two or three hours of talking and recitation of verses from the Koran to persuade him to change his mind.
Regarding smuggling oil to Iran, I know nothing. When I raised the issue with Shahristani, he said he had hard evidence and I told him that it was not true.
Rudaw: How much oil reserve does Iraq have?
Mutasam Akram: Iraq has 143 billion barrels of untapped oil. I don’t know about Kurdistan, but what I see in the media suggests that Kurdistan has 45 billion barrels.
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